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Post by exitmusician on Sept 15, 2003 3:41:22 GMT -5
Anoigw afto to thread lamvanontas aformi apo mia synoliki thewrisi tou zitimatos twn ellinikwn gipedwn se mia syzitisi pou eixa to S/K alla kai apo to thread me titlo "Oxi alla stadia me stivo". Pistevw oti estw kai arga oi ellinikoi syllogoi arxizoun na syneiditopoioun tin emboriki diastasi tou podosfairou. Se afto epaikse poly simantiko rolo i synanastrofi mas me alles xwres mesw tou Champions League. Toulaxiston oi treis megaloi tis Athinas fainetai oti antilamvanontai oti ta pragmata den boroun na synexisoun na leitourgoun opws leitourgoun twra. Afto pou me provlimatizei einai an pisw apo tis kiniseis kataskevis newn gipedwn yparxei ena ksekatharo epixeirimatiko orama i an aplws ginomaste "copycats" aftwn pou vlepoume sto ekswteriko. P.x. to Old Trafford einai gia tin ManU mia mono plevra tou epixeirisiakou oramatos tis. Opoios thelei na diavasei poioi einai akrivws oi epixeirimatikoi stoxoi tis ManU as episkeftei to link pou parathetw amesws kai pou perigrafei tin epixeirisiaki stratigiki tis etaireias: ir.manutd.com/manutd/about/bustrat/I gnwmi mou einai oti den yparxei epix. stratigiki stous ellinikous syllogous (entaksei afto den einai kainourio), oute kan stous treis pou ftiaxnoun i theloun na ftiaksoun kainouria gipeda, kai oti ta gipeda ftiaxnontai apla gia na "xwrane perissotero kosmo" apo o,ti ta yparxonta. Tha borouse kaneis na pei oti o Olympiakos me tin diadikasia eggrafis melwn fainetai oti exei enan prosanatolismo, alla gnwmi mou einai oti akoma den exei ksekatharistei poion apwtato skopo tha eksypiretisei. Epeidi to thread afto borei efkola na ksefygei, tha parakalousa na meinoume se afto pou grafei o titlos: ton rolo tou kainouriou gipedou stin epix. stratigiki mias ellinikis PAE. |
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gm2263
Junior Member
The Jedi Will Rise Again
Posts: 78
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Post by gm2263 on Sept 24, 2003 14:36:30 GMT -5
Êáôá ðþò öáßíåôáé ìÜëëïí Ý÷ù üñåîç ãéá êïõâåíôïýëá áðüøå (åßìáé êáé êáéíïýñéïò åäþ ðÝñá êáé ÷áßñïìáé ðïõ ãñÜöù êáé óôá ÅëëçíéêÜ). ÔÝëùò ðÜíôùí...
Ëïéðüí. Ó÷åôéêÜ ìå ôï óõãêåêñéìÝíï æÞôçìá èá ìéëÞóù ùò ôñßôïò åöüóïí äåí åßìáé ößëáèëïò áðï ôï Äçìïôéêü ó÷ïëåßï (ôüôå Þìïõíá Ðáíáèçíáúêüò by the way ðïõ ëÝåé êáé ï Êïõëïýñçò), êáé ôï ðïäüóöáéñï äåí ìå åíäéáöÝñåé ðåñéóóüôåñï áðï Üëëá áèëÞìáôá åêôüò áí ìå êáëÝóïõí ößëïé ãéá íá äïýìå ìéá ÅõñùðáúêÞ äéïñãÜíùóç.
Ïíôùò (êáé ôï ëÝãù ìåôá ëüãïõ ãíþóåùò, äéäÜóêù äéïéê. åðé÷. óå êïëëÝãéá), ÄÅÍ õðÜñ÷åé óôñáôçãéêÞ êáé ôïýôï äéüôé ÊÁÍÅÍÁÓ Åëëçíéêüò óýëëïãïò äåí Ý÷åé áíôéëçöèåß ôéò ÊÁÉÖÁËÁÉÙÄÅÉÓ ðïéïôéêÝò áëëáãÝò ðïõ Ý÷ïõí óõíôåëåóôåß óôçí ÅëëçíéêÞ êïéíùíßá ôá ôåëåõôáßá ÷ñüíéá. Ãéá ôç óõãêåêñéìÝíç ðåñßðôùóç áõôÝò åßíáé:
1. ÁëëáãÞ ôçò êïõëôïýñáò äéáóêÝäáóçò êáé åðéðÝäïõ ìüñöùóçò ôá ôåëåõôáßá ÷ñüíéá. Ãéá êÜðïéá êïéíùíéêÜ óôñþìáôá äåí åßíáé in ôï íá ðÜíå óôï ãÞðåäï óå óýãêñéóç ìå ôï ôé ãéíüôáíå ðñßí 30 ÷ñüíéá. Ðñïôéìïýí íá âëÝðïõíå ôïõò áãþíåò áðï ôç óõíäñïìçôéêÞ Þ ìç ôçëåüñáóç.
2. Áõîçóç åíáëëáêôéêþí ìïñöþí äéáóêÝäáóçò óå ó÷Ýóç ìå ôï ôé ãéíüôáí ðñßí 30 ÷ñüíéá. Äå ÷ñåéÜæåôáé íá ðþ ðåñéóóüôåñá. Óýãêñéíå áðëÜ ôéò åíáëëáêôéêÝò ìïñöÝò äéáóêÝäáóçò óôçí ðåñéï÷Þ ðïý ìÝíåéò ôþñá ìå ôï ôß õðÞñ÷å ôüôå...
3. Åëëåéøç åëåýèåñïõ ÷ñüíïõ. Åíáò óå ðáñáãùãéêÞ çëéêßá Üíèñùðïò ðéèáíüí íá åñãÜæåôáé ôþñá êáé ôá Óáââáôïêýñéáêá Þ íá èÝëåé áðëÜ íá îåêïõñáóôåß, éäßùò Üí áíÞêåé óôçí êáôçãïñßá ôùí Áëâáíþí ìå êïõóôïýìéá ðïõ ïíïìÜæïíôáé "óôåëÝ÷ç åðé÷åéñÞóåùí" êáé Ý÷åé ôçí áôõ÷ßá íá åßíáé êáé íÝïò óôçí çëéêßá.
4. ÁðáñÜäåêôåò óõíèÞêåò óôá ÃÞðåäá (ðïõ üìùò âåëôéþíïíôáé) êáé
5. Hooligans (áõôïß äå âåëôéþíïíôáé, ôï áíôßèåôï ÷åéñùôåñåýïõí).
6. ÊáêÞ åéêüíá ôùí ðåñéóóïôÝñùí ÐÁÅ êáé ôïõ áèëÞìáôïò (ôá îÝñåôå êáëýôåñá áðï åìÝíá), êáé,
7. ÕøçëÝò ôéìÝò åéóçôçñßùí (áõôü ôï óõæçôÜìå)
ÖõóéêÜ äåí ðåñßìåíá ôéò ÐÁÅ íá Ý÷ïõí óïâáñÜ åðé÷åéñçìáôéêÜ ó÷Ýäéá ãéá ôçí áíôéìåôþðéóç ôùí ðáñáðÜíù Üí êáé Ý÷ïõí Ýíá ÔÑÏÌÁÊÔÉÊÏ óôñáôçãéêü ðëåïíÝêôçìá óå ó÷Ýóç ìå Üëëåò åôáéñåßåò: Ôçí ìÝ÷ñé èáíÜôïõ ðßóôç ôùí öéëÜèëùí ôïõò (ôï... customer loyalty ðïõ ëÝìå óôá... âëá÷ïãéÜðéêá). Ç ìüíç êáôçãïñßá êáôáíáëùôþí ðåëáôþí ðïõ ôïõò ðëçóéÜæåé óôï èÝìá áõôü åßíáé áõôÞ ôùí êáðíéóôþí.
Ïðüôå ôé ãßíåôáé; ÁðëÜ, ãéá íá áöõðíéóôåß ç êïéìþìåíç ößëáèëç óõíåßäçóç åãþ ðéóôåýù üôé èá ðñÝðåé íá ãßíïõí åêóôñáôåßåò ÌÜñêåôéíãê êáé äéáöÞìéóçò óå óõíäéáóìü ìå áíáâÜèìéóç ôùí ðñïóöåñïìÝíùí õðçñåóéþí êáé ïé áíáêáôáóêåõÝò ôùí ãçðÝäùí ëåéôïõñãïýí óùóôÜ óå áõôü ôï óçìåßï. Êõñßùò üìùò ðñÝðåé íá áíáâáèìéóôåß ôï êýñïò ôïõ ðïäïóöáßñïõ óáí Üèëçìá (äåí ôï ëÝù åãþ áëëÜ ï... áðïäõôçñéÜêéáò) êáé íá óôáìáôßóïõí ïé... áõíáíßåò. Ìå ôïõò "Üññùóôïõò" ìðïñåß íá Ý÷åéò êåñêßäá áëëá äåí ãåìßæåéò åýêïëá ãÞðåäï. Ãéá íá åðéëÝîåé ï ðïëýò ëáüò íá ðÜåé óôï ãÞðåäï êáé íá äåß Ýíá ìáôò áíôß íá êÜíåé êÜôé Üëëï áðï ôá ôüóá ðïõ õðÜñ÷ïõí óáí åíáëëáêôéêÝò, åêåß ôï ðñÜãìá èÝëåé êõíÞãé.
Ôï èÝìá åßíáé: Ôá îÝñïõí áõôÜ ïé åðéôåëåßò ôùí ÐÁÅ êáé ôùí Üëëùí ïìÜäùí;
Åóåßò ðáéäéÜ ôé ëÝôå;
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Post by guest on Sept 26, 2003 9:45:59 GMT -5
Óõìöùíþ êáé ãù ðùò ãéá íá åßíáé áðïäïôéêÞ ç åðÝíäõóç åíüò êáéíïýñéïõ ãçðÝäïõ êáé íá ëåéôïõñãÞóåé ùò Ýíáò ðïëõ÷þñïò øõ÷áãùãßáò, ðñÝðåé ðñþôá áðü üëá ï èåáôÞò íá áðïëáýóåé ðïéïôéêü èÝáìá ðñþôá óôïí áãùíéóôéêü ÷þñï. Ôß íá ôï êÜíù ôï íÝï ÊáñáúóêÜêç, áí äåí âëÝðù êáëÞ ìðÜëá?
ÕðÜñ÷åé üìùò ï êßíäõíïò ôï ðïäüóöáéñï íá áðïóôåéñùèåß, íá ôï âëÝðåéò ìüíï ùò ìéá èåáôñéêÞ ðáñÜóôáóç üðïõ ïé çèïðïéïß ðáßæïõí êáé ôï êïéíü ðáñáêïëïõèåß ðñïóçëùìÝíï êáé óéùðçëü. Áõôü ìðïñåß íá ãßíåé Üíåôá, áí ôï èÝëåé ï éäéïêôÞôçò ôçò ïìÜäáò, óôï÷åýïíôáò óôá ìåóáßá êáé áíþôåñá ïéêïíïìéêÜ óôñþìáôá. Ãéáôß áõôïß èá ðëçñþóïõí ôï ôóéìðçìÝíï äéáñêåßáò ðñïêåéìÝíïõ íá ÷ïõí ôéò áíÝóåéò ôïõò, íá ìçí æïõí ìå ôï öüâï ôùí éðôÜìåíùí êáñåêëþí êáé ôùí åðåéóïäßùí. Ôï ãÞðåäï üìùò èá ãßíåé åêêëçóßá êáé ôï äÝóéìï ìåôáîý ïìÜäáò-ïðáäþí ÷áëáñþíåé.
Óôçí ôåëéêÞ ôß øÜ÷íïõìå? ¸íá ÷Üëéá ãÞðåäï ìå üëïõò ôïõò êÜöñïõò ïðáäïýò ìÝóá êáé ìå ôéò ïéêïãÝíåéåò Ýîù Þ Ýíá üìïñöï ðïëõ÷þñï, ìå ïéêïíïìïêåíôñéêÞ áíôßëçøç áëëÜ êáé ìå ÷áëÜñùóç ôïõ äåóìïý ôçò ðïäïóöáéñéêÞò ïìÜäáò ìå ôïõò fans ôçò? Êáé óôéò 2 ðåñéðôþóåéò ï ôñüðïò ðïõ èá ôï ÷åéñéóôåß ç åêÜóôïôå äéïßêçóç Ý÷åé ìÝóá ôï óåíÜñéï "áðïêëåéóìïý" êÜðïéùí êïéíùíéêþí ïìÜäùí áðü ôï ãÞðåäï. Êáô' åìÝ áõôÜ åßíáé ôá 2 Üêñá. Ç áñ÷Þ ìå ôá êáéíïýñéá ãÞðåäá óôçí ÅëëÜäá åëï÷åýåé ôïí êßíäõíï íá ðÜìå áðü ôï Ýíá Üêñï óôï Üëëï. Ôï æÞôçìá åßíáé íá âñåèåß ç éóïññïðßá áíÜìåóá óå áõôÜ ôá 2 ìå êáëëéÝñãåéá ìéáò íÝáò íïïôñïðßáò üôé ìðïñïýìå íá ìáóôå êáé öáíáôéêïß ìÝóá óå ëïãéêÜ ðëáßóéá, ìç äçìéïõñãþíôáò åðåéóüäéá áëëÜ ìüíï æåóôÞ áôìüóöáéñá áëëÜ êáé íá áðïëáìâÜíïõìå ôéò áíÝóåéò êáé ôéò ðáñï÷Ýò ôïõ ãçðÝäïõ.
Êáé ç éóïññïðßá ðÜíôá åßíáé ìéá åðßðïíç äéáäéêáóßá.
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Post by exitmusician on Sept 29, 2003 5:47:46 GMT -5
Ößëå gm2263, ôï customer loyalty äßíåé üíôùò Ýíá îåêÜèáñï óôñáôçãéêü ðëåïíÝêôçìá óôïõò ðïäïóöáéñéêïýò óõëëüãïõò. Åíôïýôïéò åßìáé ðåðåéóìÝíïò üôé áí ìéëÞóåé êáíåßò óå ïðïéïíäÞðïôå ðñüåäñï ìéêñïìåóáßáò ïìÜäáò ãéá óôñáôçãéêÜ ðëåïíåêôÞìáôá, åðé÷åéñçóéáêÜ ó÷Ýäéá êëð., åßôå äåí èá äþóåé êáìßá âÜóç, åßôå èá äå÷ôåß ÷ùñßò íá êáôáëáâáßíåé ôé åßäïõò ïñãáíùóéáêÝò áëëáãÝò óõíåðÜãåôáé ìßá ôÝôïéá ðñüôáóç. ÅðïìÝíùò (êáé ç áíÜëõóÞ óïõ ìå âïÞèçóå íá ðñï÷ùñÞóù ôç óêÝøç ìïõ) ç Ýëëåéøç âáóéêÞò åðé÷åéñçìáôéêÞò êïõëôïýñáò (entrepreneurship) åê ìÝñïõò ôùí ðñïÝäñùí-éäéïêôçôþí-äéïéêïýíôùí âñßóêåôáé óôï õðüâáèñï ôçò Ýëëåéøçò óôñáôçãéêÞò. Êïéíþò, ü,ôé öÜìå, ü,ôé ðéïýìå êëð.
Ôï ðþò áõôÞ ç Ýëëåéøç ïñÜìáôïò ìåôïõóéþíåôáé Þ åðçñåÜæåé ôçí ðïäïóöáéñéêÞ õðïäïìÞ åßíáé öáíåñü êáé ðñïâëÝøéìï. Êáìßá ìéêñïìåóáßá ïìÜäá äåí Ý÷åé ó÷åäéÜóåé ôçí äçìéïõñãßá íÝïõ ãçðÝäïõ ãéáôß êáìßá ïìÜäá äåí Ý÷åé áíáãíùñßóåé ôçí ðñïïðôéêÞ ðïõ ìðïñåß íá ôéò ðñïóöÝñåé ç ïñèïëïãéêÞ åðé÷åéñçìáôéêÞ ïñãÜíùóç, óôçí ïðïßá åíôÜóóåôáé êáé ç êáôáóêåõÞ ôïõ ãçðÝäïõ.
Óå ü,ôé áöïñÜ ôçí ó÷Ýóç ìåôáîý ïðáäþí-ïìÜäáò, ößëå guest, äéáöùíþ. Ïé áò ðïýìå "öëþñïé" ïðáäïß ð.÷. óôçí Áããëßá êáé ôç Ãåñìáíßá åßíáé ìÝëç óõëëüãùí ìå ðáñüìïéá åðé÷åéñçìáôéêÞ ïñãÜíùóç ìå ôïõò ÂÜóêïõò ôçò Real Sociedad êáé ôçò Atletico Bilbao, ìå ôïõò ïðáäïýò Rangers êáé Celtic (ðïõ êÜíïõí ôï Ïëõìðéáêüò-ÐÁÏ íá ìïéÜæåé ìå ó÷ïëéêÞ åêäñïìÞ), êëð. Áõôïß óßãïõñá äåí ìðïñïýí íá êáôçãïñçèïýí üôé äåí åßíáé äåìÝíïé ìå ôéò ïìÜäåò ôïõò. Åí ôÝëåé, ðéóôåýù üôé ç ïñãÜíùóç ìéáò ïìÜäáò óå óùóôÜ åðé÷åéñçìáôéêÜ ðñüôõðá äåí ôáõôßæåôáé åê ôùí ðñáãìÜôùí ìå ôï áíåéëéêñéíÝò êáé ôï áðñüóùðï üðùò ðïëëïß èÝëïõí íá ôï ðáñïìïéÜæïõí. Áõôü ìðïñåß íá ãßíåé ìüíï áí ôï åðéäéþîïõí ïé äéïéêïýíôåò.
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Post by Mekios on Sept 29, 2003 17:59:06 GMT -5
As mpw kai egw stin kouventa.
Katarxas to costumer loyalty den einai pronomio i pleonektima mas. Oso pio pistous opadous exeis toso pio pollous hooligans exeis kai antistrofa. Ena kyrille gypedo kai gyrw xwroi den tha proselkysoun kafrous (tha tous proselkysoun alla kapoioi pou tha einai stin porta tha tous apwthisoun) antitheta tha proselkysoun anwtera koinwnika strwmata (as ta poume eisodimata giati den mou aresei kai toso i katata3i se diakrites kastes) se ena xwro politismou pou tha vrwmaei kainourgila kai trendy-ila. deite gia paradeigma to Old-Trafford vlepete pollous na kathontai me emfaniseis? Vlepete pollous na kathontai orthioi kai na xoropidane? Sou dinete mia aisthisi flwrias! Poios sa eipe omws oti voithountai oi paiktes otan akoun to katevato gia tin mama tou diaititi i ta varia vrisidia pou genika akougontai? To xeirokrotima se kanei na niwtheis poly anwteros (san paiktis) para na akous "Tade gera kai g***a ta m***a" . Ayto den einai flwria einai "maggia"!
Telika ti theloume? Flwrous? i' Magges? Apo ayto e3artate kai i oli epixeirimatiki antilipsi gyrw apo to gypedo. An theleis kafrous den xreiazontai kan ta kathismata, ta kagkela den tha fygoun pote, kai ta pyromaxika tha einai afthona se kathe gypedo.
Theloume flwrous? Tote tha exoume gamata gypeda kai gyrw xwrous. Oikogeneis sta gypeda,oxi epeisodia akoma kai an o diaititis sfyrizei penalti se anatropi e3w apo tin perioxi sto 97'. Alla mono palamakia kai passsatempos! Oxi synthimata oxi pano oxi xrwma kai palmos!
Mesi lysi? Yparxei alla edw kollame! Mia mesi lysi einai i periptwsi tis italias. Arkei na katalaboume ta megethi kai na tirisoume tis analogies. Stin italia exei pathiasmenous opadous, exei kai kaloutsika gypeda, exei kai kana epeisodio pou kai pou alla apo kati arrwstous pou tous stenoun B' ethniki amesws (Torino).
Omws yparxei ena tearastio provlima stin Ellada! H dysanalogikatnomi tou plithismou se athina ousiastika kai thessaloniki exei pollwsei tous opadous gyrw apo tis megales omades! H eparxia an kai exei polles omades valtwnei akrivws logw epixeirisiakis prooptikis. O proedros mias eparxiakis omadas prepei na einai mikris embeleias epixeirimatias afou oles oi epixeiriseis exoun syngentrwthei sto kentro. Anagkastika oi proedroi exoun ena proion to opoio prepei na poulisoun stous ntopious. Prepei omws na tous feroun sto ghpedo. Pws to kanoun? Xwnoun ekatomyria se paiktes outws wste na anevoun tis katigories san ta xapakia kai na ftasoun ston paktwlo pou legete A' ethniki. Oute logos gia gipedo! Pigainete na deiteta gipeda tis B' ethnikis pou paizoun sxedon oles oiomades tis eparxias. XALIA! An rwtiseis tous proedrous? "Prexei na anebei i omada! ", "an aneboume tha ta ftia3oume", "twra pou anevikame proexei nameinoume stin katigoria", "twra pou peftoume to gypedo tha doume?","pesame ... xaireta nas tn platano". Blepete pouthena prooptiki, sxediasmo,programmatismo?
Kaka ta psemmata to ghpedo einai to kentro mias omadas. To magazi tis kai proion to theama. Se ena kwlomagazo ti proionta tha perimenate na deite? Se ena kyrillato? Etsi einai kai to podosfero simera. Sta mantria vlepeis 3ulo kai oxi mpala! Sta salonia vlepeis mpalara! Giati ekei otan o paiktaras kanei tin 5pli tripla kai amolisei to sout pou trypaei ta dixtya kanoune exthroi kai filoi aaaaaaa! Edw molis i mpala kollisei sto vourko (o opoios einai kai texnitos merikes fores gia na e3ypiretei diaforous amyntikous skopous) kai o paiktis kanei ti fanela kafe oi kafroi analambanoun drasi.
Mia kali idea tha itan i e3is:
edw sto forum tou "stadia" na kanoume mia epixeirimatiki protasi o kathenas! To senario einai :
Analambanoume mia omada D' ethnikis xwris ghpedo se mia poli 100.000 katoikwn. Pws tha kataferoume se 10 xronia na paizoume A' ethniki me diko mas gipedo,yypodomi kai genika na kanoume mia ygii pae stin elliniki pragmatiokotita. Perimenw...
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Post by exitmusician on Sept 30, 2003 5:49:50 GMT -5
Ößëå mekie ðïëý êáëÞ ç éäÝá óïõ! Äå ëÝù, êáëÞ ç êïõâÝíôá ãéá ôá ó÷Ýäéá êáé ôá ìðåôÜ, áëëÜ áõôü åßíáé êÜôé ôï ôåëåßùò äéáöïñåôéêü. Èá åðáíÝñèù ìå ðñþôåò óêÝøåéò êÜðïéá Üëëç óôéãìÞ.
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Post by Stratis on Oct 15, 2003 8:55:57 GMT -5
Geia sas paidia! Orea kouventa ksekinisate! Tin idia eixa me filo prin apo liges meres kai to koino symperasma itan oti den prepei na ksexname oti telika oles oi epixeirimatikes drastiriotites, den mporoun na periorizontai stis dyo fores tin evdomada opou i omada paizei sto gipedo kai ara oi kafroi 8a xrisimopoioun ta ekastote magazia. An afti einai i idea, tote kanenas sovaros epixeirimatias den prokeitai na dosei mia gia na ftiaksei magazi pou tha doulevei 40-50 fores to xrono... Anti8eta i idea prepei na einai oti ta magazia einai ekei, synexeia, dia8esima 20/7 , prostatevmena, klp klp. Deite to xamo pou ginetai sta opoia "Village" ana tin Athina/Ellada.... Den doulevoun parepiptontos epeidi o kosmos paei na dei mia tainia, alla isos vlepei mia tainia epeidi einai ekei...!!! Isos akoma "Pame ekei kai vlepoume ti tha kanoume"!!! Sxetika me afto, posoi apo tous fotismenous proedrous/managers pigan na doun to fovero kai tromero xoro pou exei ftiaksei i CHELSEA sto Londino? Kainourio gipedo (gipedara, an kai me xalaei pou gremistike o xoros orthion, POLLA apogevmata ekei....!!!!), emporika loipon gia na epaneltho, mexri kai ksenodoxeio me domatia me thea sto gipedo.... Kai meta anarotiountai merikoi giati o Rosos dialekse na kseplinei ekei xrima!?  !?!? Den einai to gipedo/podosfero pou 8a ferei xrimata, einai oi paraplevres drastiriotites. Sxolia??!?!?! |
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